New Anti-Mormon video is distributed

Search for the Truth

This video entitled "Search for the truth" was distributed to thousands of members of the church for free. Although I was not selected to receive the DVD, anyone can watch it on the Internet. Overall, I thought it was pretty boring but it did have some good points as to why I no longer believe in the Mormon church. The part about the Book of Abraham was the most important part for me, because when I learned about the Book of Abraham, that is when I completely lost faith in the Mormon Church. I will discuss my discoveries on the Book of Abraham at a later time. Just like most "Anti-Mormon" productions made by evangelicals, I found about 15 mins worth of substantial information in a 1:30 hour presentation. It was a typical over-impassioned film, but it did have some worthwile and accurate information, even if it was watered down at times.

Evangelicals and Hypocrisy

I find it fascinating that Evangelicals are quick to point to DNA and archaeology to disprove the Book of Mormon, yet they fail to recognize that the same science disproves many aspects of the Bible as well. DNA disproves creationism for one, and there is no scientific evidence to back up the story of Noah's ark. There is some evidence to support some events in the Bible, but there is also evidence to contradict other events and stories. In the video, there was a part where someone was saying "scientists are not debating the origin of the Native Americans". However, there is also no debate in the scientific community on the origin of man either. Scientists have used DNA evidence to link Homo sapiens to the Homo heidelbergensis and the Homo ecrectus species. So, if we can apply DNA evidence to prove that Native Americans are from North Eastern Asia and not Israel as the Book of Mormon claims, we can use the same DNA evidence to prove that men came from apes and not Adam and Eve. My point is if you discredit DNA evidence when it disproves the Bible, you have to discredit it completely.

Locations as Evidence for the Bible?

It is interesting that people would point out that the locations mentioned in the Bible exist and therefore that proves that it is a true book. However, the cities mentioned in the Doctrine and Covenants exist. I can go to Independence, Missouri, Carthage, IL or Palmyra, NY and see evidence that Joseph Smith existed. I can look at archaeological evidence to support that Joseph Smith was a real person and that the people groups that are mentioned existed. Does that mean that the Doctrine and Covenants is a true book?

Mormons and Hypocrisy

On the flip side, I am also amazed at the reaction of church members. Most members of the church are repulsed by the idea of someone sending them a video that questions their faith and is trying to ram their beliefs down their throats to get them to change religions. Then, I laugh because the LDS church is doing the exact same thing, it looks like people don't like the taste of their own medicine.

I know all about what LDS missionaries do, because I was one. As a missionary, I was trained to destroy other people's faith in their religion. We would send videos along with other medias, but the point is that now that the shoe is on the other foot, LDS members need to understand why other people are mad when we try to shove our beliefs down other people's throats.

Everyone is a Hypocrite

Evangelicals like to use science to disprove Mormonism, but when the same science disproves the bible, suddenly science isn't reliable. Mormons like to drop by unannounced and show people videos that they didn't ask for, but get bent out of shape if someone else does the same thing to them. I suppose it is just part of human nature to only see what we want to see. I am sure I do the same thing. As for the quality of the video, I have seen other videos that are better.

Church Response to the video

LDS apologists offer some insight. This is the part where I lose faith in Mormonsim. LDS apologists can't refute what is said on the video, all they can do is attack the source. The worst is the part where they admit that the Book of Abraham is a hoax and the church has known it since 1967.

The official church response is very angry and upset about the video. Once again, they can't refute any of the facts on the video, they can only attack the source of the video. "one religious group chooses to target another with a DVD full of distortions of its doctrine and history, and misrepresentations so stark that they call into question the integrity of the producers." Pot, meet Kettle. You want to talk about a group that distorts LDS doctrine and church history, look in the mirror. I just mentioned the Book of Abraham and how the LDS church has known since 1967 that it was a hoax, but yet the church hides and distorts that fact from the general church population. The Book of Abraham is still an officially cannonized scripture.

By their own words, a religious group that is full of distortions of the LDS doctrine and history, and misrepresentations so stark that they call into question the integrity of that group, we should not trust anything said by that religious group. Nobody has distorted and misrepresented LDS history and doctrine like the LDS church.

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Metal Swords and the Book of Mormon

In one of my recent posts, I talked about the use of metals mentioned in the Book of Mormon and the difficulty of finding any evidence to support this claim. I also talked about the role of Mormon apologists in attempting to explain many of the anomalies regarding the Book of Mormon and archaeology. Today I am going to speak specifically on metal swords in the Book of Mormon.

"Swords" found in Mesoamerica

Since not a single metal sword has been found anywhere in Mesoamerica, some LDS apologists point to a weapon used in that region called a macuahuitl as the most likely candidate for the Book of Mormon sword.

The macuahuitl, as seen to the left was a weapon used by the Aztecs that is made of wood with obsidian blades embedded into slots that were sharp enough to decapitate a man. Although some people call it a "wooden sword", most weapons experts consider the macuahuitl as a type of club rather than a sword. You can't stab or pierce anyone with it, and you would most likely use it to knock people out like a club. You can't even slash a person's throat like a metal blade, to slice through skin, you could only use it in a chopping motion like you would with an axe.

That's the closest thing to a Book of Mormon Sword?

If the macuahuitl is the "most likely candidate" for the Book of Mormon sword, then I would hate to see the runner-ups. The "most likely candidate" for the Book of Mormon sword doesn't even closely resemble the descriptions of swords in the Book of Mormon.

Swords in the Book of Mormon are Metal

Nephi describes Laban's sword in specific detail and indicates that he used it as a model to make many more swords. It describes a golden hilt and a steel blade as seen in an artist's rendering of Book of Mormon battles.

1 Nephi 4:9:"And I beheld his(Laban's) sword...and the hilt thereof was of pure gold, and the workmanship thereof was exceedingly fine, and I saw that the blade thereof was of the most precious steel."

2 Nephi 5:14-15:And I, Nephi, did take the sword of Laban, and after the manner of it did make many swords...And I did teach my people to...work in all manner of iron, and of copper, and of brass, and of steel"

We are also to assume that you could slash someones throat with Laban's sword using one hand. Nephi describes killing Laban with his own sword.

1 Nephi 4:18:"I...took Laban by the hair of the head, and I smote off his head with his own sword."

This story sounds a lot like David killing Goliath with his own sword after taking him down with his sling.

1 Sam 17:51: "David...took his sword, and drew it out of the sheath thereof, and slew him, and cut off his head therewith"

However, plagiarism and the Book of Mormon is an entirely different topic for another day.

There is no doubt that a macuahuitl could decapitate someones head, however, the manner in which one would do it doesn't resemble the description in the Book of Mormon. One would most likely have to chop it off like chopping wood, rather than holding their head up by their hair with one hand and slicing the head with the sword in the other hand as described in the Book of Mormon.

Sword piercings, points of swords, hilts and rust

Alma 44:12-13 "one of Moroni’s soldiers smote it even to the earth, and it broke by the hilt; and he also smote Zerahemnah that he took off his scalp and it fell to the earth.... the soldier ... who smote off the scalp of Zerahemnah, took up the scalp from off the ground by the hair, and laid it upon the point of his sword"

Alma 44:18 it describes Lamanites being "pierced and smitten" by Nephite swords. There is no doubt that swords mentioned in the Book of Mormon are referring to metal swords as we know it today.

Mosiah 8:11: "And again, they have brought swords, the hilts thereof have perished, and the blades thereof were cankered with rust"

The swords mentioned in the Book of Mormon also mention hilts, which is a guard grip. To the right is a picture of what a hilt looks like. A macuahuitl doesn't have a hilt. Why would you need one on a macuahuitl? A macuahuitl is used as a club or an axe with a chopping motion, where you have no need of a hilt. However, metal swords have a hilt to protect from the skimming of a metal blade when fencing.

The Jaradites mention metal swords

The Jaradites were a civilization that lived in Book of Mormon lands a few thousand years before the Lamanites and Nephites. Here it is in black and white it says they were armed with swords of steel

Ether7:9:"Wherefore, he came to the hill Ephraim, and he did molten out of the hill, and made swords out of steel for those whom he had drawn away with him; and after he had armed them with swords he returned to the city Nehor"

How many swords were there?

There were enough swords lying around to kill at least 2 million people.

Either 15:2: "He saw that there had been slain by the sword already nearly two millions of his people"

LDS Apologists argue:

• Just because no metal swords have been found in Mesoamerica doesn't mean they didn't exist

• Rust in the Book of Mormon might not mean rust, it could just be a term used for 'decay'

• Although Nephi says he made "Many swords" after the manner of Laban, it doesn't say "all" swords were made this way. They argue that 'many swords' at the time could have been a small handful, then years later, thousands of wooden swords were made.

• Some of the swords in the Book of Mormon might be wooden because it mentions swords being "stained with blood" Alma 24:12-15

• A 'Hilt' in the Book of Mormon might just mean the 'handle'

• The number of people mentioned in the Book of Mormon might be greatly exaggerated, it is possible that there were only thousands of people killed by metal swords and not millions as the Book of Mormon says.

You can see my problem with these explanations. They either have to distort definitions, or contradict the Book of Mormon, particularly when it comes to defending the veracity of the Book of Mormon by saying it is incorrect. To say that the Book of Mormon is incorrect in the number of people killed by metal swords in an effort to prove that it is possible that the event happened means you have to discredit the Book of Mormon one way or another, and that is the paradox that is created.


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Mormon Apologists

I think it is important to talk briefly about Mormon apologists and their role in the church. Apologists are people that are concerned with the systematic defense of a position. LDS apologists are people that already have preconceived ideas about the Mormon church and they defend and provide counter arguments to things that might question the claims by the Mormon church.

Role of LDS Apologists

If there was one single important thing to know about Mormon Apologists it would be that their job isn't to convert people to Mormonism, it is only to keep people that are already members in. What that means is that Mormon apologists only have to tell members that something is possible. They don't have to prove that something actually happened and they don't even have to prove that something is plausible. For example, when talking about the geography of the Book of Mormon, there are no specific cities found, only a general land mass that doesn't even have the correct orientation. Hence, Mormon Apologists aren't trying to convert anyone, their sole responsibility is to provide evidence to members that it is possible, even if it is not very likely. Most of the time, they have to twist meanings or only tell part of the story for it to fit the claims made in the Book of Mormon. Above all, LDS apologists almost always have to disregard statements made by Joseph Smith and other prophets. Nobody discredits LDS prophets and apostles like LDS apologists.

Apologists and absence of evidence

LDS apologists follow the logic that just because there is no evidence to support the Book of Mormon doesn't mean it's not true. In other words, lack of evidence doesn't disprove something happened and therefore it is still possible. As long as it is still possible, most members are satisfied.
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Metallurgy and the Book of Mormon

As stated in my previous post, Thomas Ferguson founded the New World Archaeological Foundation that was and continues to be funded by the LDS church. It is now funded through BYU. The single and sole purpose of the NWAF is to prove the veracity of the Book of Mormon through Archaeological research. Unfortunately, they have not found a single place or single shred of evidence to support the Book of Mormon.

As stated before, the most popular theory about the geography of the Book of Mormon is the limited Mesoamerica geography theory. However, there are many problems in trying to connect the civilizations in Mesoamerica with the Book of Mormon. One of these issues is the use of metals that were used in Book of Mormon lands.

Metals are mentioned repeatedly in the Book of Mormon

2 Nephi 5:15: "And I did teach my people to build buildings, and to work in all manner of wood, and of iron, and of copper, and of brass, and of steel, and of gold, and of silver, and of precious ores, which were in great abundance."

According to Nephi, wood, iron, copper, brass, steel, gold, silver and precious ores were not only used, but they were found in great abundance. The use of various types of metals in the Book of Mormon is a recurring theme throughout the entire book. The Book itself was purportedly etched on golden plates.

The Jaradites also describe various metals used during their civilization.

Ether 10:23: "And they did work in all manner of ore, and they did make gold, and silver, and iron, and brass, and all manner of metals; and they did dig it out of the earth; wherefore, they did cast up mighty heaps of earth to get ore, of gold, and of silver, and of iron, and of copper. And they did work all manner of fine work."

LDS scholars face a challenge regarding the metallurgy test in Mesoamerica. The biggest problem is that people in Mesoamerica during the time period described in the Book of Mormon (600 B.C.-400 A.D.) didn't use metal at all, they used stone. If one is to believe that the Book of Mormon took place in Mesoamerica, it is challenging to explain how iron, copper, brass, steel, gold, silver and precious ores that were described as being found in such great abundance in the Book of Mormon and yet there is no evidence to support metalwork in Mesoamerica during this time period. The evidence demonstrates that Metallurgy was introduced in Mesoamerica during the late Classic period (600 A.D.-800 A.D.) at least 200 years after the Book of Mormon plates were supposedly buried.



Uses of Metal

The Book of Mormon is very clear on the various uses of metals both during the Lamanite-Nephite era and the Jaredite times:

Metal armor

Use of metal armor is mentioned in both Lamanite-Nephite times and Jaredite times.

Alma 46:13: "And he fastened on his head-plate, and his breastplate, and his shields, and girded on his armor about his loins"

Ether 15:15:"...both men, women and children being armed with weapons of war, having shields, and breastplates, and head-plates"


Metal swords

Nephi describes Labans sword in specific detail and indicates that he used it as a model to make more swords.

1 Nephi 4:9:"And I beheld his(Laban's) sword...and the hilt thereof was of pure gold, and the workmanship thereof was exceedingly fine, and I saw that the blade thereof was of the most precious steel."

2 Nephi 5:14-15:And I, Nephi, did take the sword of Laban, and after the manner of it did make many swords...And I did teach my people to...work in all manner of iron, and of copper, and of brass, and of steel"

Other uses of metal in the Book of Mormon include chains, plows, metal tools, and of course metal plates for writing.

Weapons and Tools found in Mesoamerica

The weapons that were used in Mesoamerica were made from flint, stone and wood, not metal. The tools that were used by these civilizations were made from stone and wood, not metal. Both LDS and non-LDS archaeologists have not found a single metal sword, chain, plow, tool, plate,weapon, shield, head plate, or Brest plate anywhere that was used in pre-Colombian times.

To the right is a typical Mayan sacrificial knife made from Obsidian. The Book of Mormon doesn't mention the Lamanites or the Nephites using any kind of stone, rock or volcanic rocks. It is safe to say that the metallurgy in the Book of Mormon doesn't closely resemble the civilizations in Mesoamerica. Other sacrificial knifes that have been found are made of a flint blade with wooden handles.


Response from LDS scholars

How can it be that the Book of Mormon speaks of metals in such great details, but yet nobody has been able to find any evidence to support this claim?

LDS apologists argue:

• Metal corrodes and deteriorates—especially in the humid and wet jungles of Mesoamerica, so it is possible that all the metal objects in the Book of Mormon have dissapeared.

• A group in Columbia might have used metal, so it is possible that metal was brought to Mesoamerica.

• "Steel" in the Book of Mormon might not actually be Steel.

• Copper plates used for writing have been found in the Middle East, however not a single metal plate has been found anywhere in North or South America.

• At least a dozen pieces of metal have been found in Mesoamerica dating to before 900 AD, but none of the metal pieces matches anything relating to the Book of Mormon.

• An iron smelting furnace used by Native Americans has been found in Ohio.

It appears that LDS apologists are really grasping at straws, and that is what is most disheartening.

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The Tree of Life Stone

Many LDS members have seen this famous stone carving as evidence to the veracity of The Book of Mormon. Many members of the church believed that this stone represents Lehi's dream of the tree of life as described in the Book of Mormon. The leaders of the church didn't confirm this assertion, but they didn't deny it either, leaving people to believe that it was in fact the so called "Tree of Life Stone". In 1960, an Apostle named Marion G. Romney was hopeful that it was a representation of Lehi's dream, but didn't take an official stand on it.

However, LDS scholars now agree that the stone does not represent Lehi's Dream at all. It is a carving of a tree for crying out loud. There are trees all over the place, it isn't that far-fetched that there is a carving of a tree. LDS scholars are reluctant to admit that it isn't Lehi's dream, and they certainly don't announce it from the pulpit, but the evidence is conclusive that the original assertions were incorrect.

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Book of Mormon script

Linguists

The Book of Mormon was etched on plates of gold with a language known as "Reformed Egyptian", a hybrid of Egyptian and Hebrew texts.

One of the reasons LDS scholars considered Mesoamerica as the ideal candidate for archaeology digs was because it was the only place in the entire North and South American Continent where written language was an established tradition. However, the only problem was that the types of languages that existed in Mesoamerica at the time didn't closely resemble Hebrew, Egyptian or Cuneiform(only script used in Tower of Babel times). The other issue is that the written language used in Mesoamerica dates all the way back to 5,000 B.C., so there is no way the written language that is found in that area is from Book of Mormon Civilizations.

LDS scholars at BYU point out that there are circumstantial similarities between Mesoamerican script with Egyptian and Hebrew texts. Native American Languages: Let's Void the Void by:Brian D. Stubbs

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Archaeology and the Book of Mormon

In my previous posts, I talked about the problems facing the geography of the Book of Mormon. The traditional view regarding the geography of the Book of Mormon is the view that was widely accepted by Joseph Smith, other prophets and early members of the church in general. The traditional view was that the geography for the Book of Mormon included the entire North and South American continents. However, more and more LDS scholars are taking a more non-traditional view of the Book of Mormon geography, known as a "limited Geography theory", or in other words Joseph Smith was incorrect in his teachings that the Book of Mormon covered the entire Continent. Instead, most LDS scholars today insist the Book of Mormon is a story of a small group of people that had very little impact on the overall society. The reason is current LDS scholars take this view is because it is clear that the civilizations that are found in North, Central and South America are in no way similar at all with the descriptions in the Book of Mormon.

Continual Shrinking of Book of Mormon Geography

Sometime in the 1940's, the first LDS scholars came up with the idea that the geography of the Book of Mormon was not the entire North and South American continent, but was in fact limited to the southern Mexico and Central American area. This view was not well accepted at first, particularly since it contradicted Joseph Smith and his claims about locating the remains of Zelph, the location of the hill Cumorah, and statements made by Smith and other early prophets. None the less, it has since proven to be the most widely popular and publicized theory.



The reason LDS scholars believe that the Book of Mormon geography is located around Mesoamerica is because there were many civilizations that had great empires in that region during the same time period. So, it would make sense that if the vast empires that existed in the Book of Mormon, we could find some archaeological evidence to support it.

The New World Archaeological Foundation

In 1952, an LDS attorney named Thomas Ferguson approached the first presidency with an idea for the church to fund an archaeological dig in central America with the soul purpose of finding cities and/or artifacts that would support the Book of Mormon. The name of the organization that Ferguson established was The New World Archaeological Foundation. Although David O. Mckay(the prophet and president at the time) was skeptical at first, once Thomas Ferguson raised private funds to get the program started, the church stepped in and fully backed the program financially.

The New World Archaeological Foundation is funded by the church, but employs professional Archaeologists to manage the dig sites. It has since been re-structured and is now run through BYU, but it's purpose remains the same. Its sole purpose is finding locations and artifacts to support the Book of Mormon . Unfortunately, 55 years after it was founded, they have yet to find a single shred of physical evidence to support the Book of Mormon. In fact, in the quest to find evidence to support the Book of Mormon, LDS archaeologists and anthropologists have discovered quite the opposite. In my next posts, I will outline the different archaeological aspects of what is found in ancient America and how it differs with what is described in the Book of Mormon.

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Great Lakes Limited Geography Theory

Most LDS scholars agree that the Book of Mormon lands are located somewhere around Mesoamerica. However, as I pointed out in my previous post, there are no specific cities found, only ideas of general regions and landscapes. There is also evidence of civilizations during the same time period, although the culture doesn't closely resemble the descriptions in the Book of Mormon. The other problem is that Joseph Smith said that he recieved the golden plates in upstate New York on a hill called hill Cumorah, which happens to be located just over a mile from where Joseph Smith lived in Palmyra, NY at the time. The hill Cumorah is the only official church location from the Book of Mormon.

This would lead me to believe that perhaps all the LDS scholars are looking in the wrong place. If Joseph Smith found the golden plates in upstate New York, it would make sense that other cities and locations are in that area, and not Mesoamerica. For example, I already discussed the difficulty with the '2 Cumorahs' theory, it contradicts what Joseph Smith said. This led me to look closer at the Great Lakes Geography theory. It would make more sense that the Book of Mormon lands would be within close proximity to upstate, NY where Joseph Smith said the golden plates were buried. Afterall, Joseph Smith always said there was only one Cumorah.

In my previous post, I talked about the difficulty that LDS scholars have had in finding physical locations for cities and geographic regions. Anytime anyone tries to place the Book of Mormon geography anywhere in the real world, they(LDS scholars) can't agree on it, they have to skew the descriptions in the Book of Mormon or stretch assumptions, and have to contradict what Joseph Smith and other prophets have said. Perhaps they are looking in the wrong place.

When you look at the area that surrounds Palmyra, NY, (click on the map to enlarge) you notice right away that there are 2 large bodies of water between a narrow neck of land that is only 30 miles wide. There is a land to the north (Canada) and a land to the south (USA). There is also a body of water to the north and the Atlantic Ocean is located in the Southeast. This geography model is known as the Great Lakes Limited geography theory. Although this theory is not very popular, I think it is the most relevant if we are to consider that Joseph Smith found the plates at the hill Cumorah.

A Bombshell!

The most fascinating thing I discovered was that the names of cities in USA and Canada are very similar to the names mentioned in the Book of Mormon.

Below is the names of actual Cities that I found using Google Earth. These cities did not exist during pre-Colombian times because Native Americans in this area didn't practice the concept of owning land. However, the names of these cities existed during the time of Joesph Smith. (Click on the map to enlarge)

Now, compare the names of cities mentioned in the Book of Mormon below.
Did Joseph Smith simply copy city names from maps of his surrounding area? It is unlikely that he used maps as the sole source of city names. To the right, you can see Lehigh county was well established on an 1823 map of Pennsylvania. However, other cities were not established until decades later. However, those city names were definetly used by people that lived in those areas. So each of the cities mentioned above either existed on maps or by word of mouth in the 1820's. We can place the Book of Mormon city names on the physical map and consider the descriptions in the Book of Mormon to see if they are consistent.

Descriptions in the Book of Mormon

It seems reasonable that a New Yorker in the 1800's would consider "The land Northward" Canada. However, before we jump to any conclusions, lets look at all the facts. Let's first look at the Geography as described in the Book of Mormon and compare it with the area.

Narrow neck of Land

Alma 22:32
“...it was only the distance of a day and a half’s journey...from the east to the west sea...there being a small neck of land between the land northward and the land southward.”

There is a narrow strip of land that is only 30 miles wide between Lake Erie and Lake Ontario. The lakes and the narrow strip border Canada.

Teancum vs. Tecumseh

The City Teancum in the Book of Mormon is described as being "in the borders by the seashore" Mormon 4:3.

The city Tecumseh, Ontario, Canada is located along the Canadian border by the seashore. (click on the map to enlarge)

Lamanite Cities

Jerusalem, Jacobugath and Kishkumen were Lamanite cities in the Book of Mormon. We can assume they were within reasonable proximity to each other. The city of Alma was named after Alma, who was a Lamanite high priest, but led an exodus of slaves out of bondage from the Lamanites. The Valley of Alma was the distance of an entire day's journey from the Lamanite cities. (Mosiah 24:20-21)

Jerusalem, OH, Jacobsburg, OH, and Kiskiminetas, PA are within close proximity to each other. Alma, WV is also located nearby. Notice there is a valley between the "Lamanite cities" and the city of Alma. (click on map to enlarge)

Land of Lehi-Nephi and Shilom vs. Lehigh County and Shiloh

In the Book of Mormon, The Land of Lehi-Nephi is described as being close to where Lehi and his family first arrived by boat onto the Americas. It is also safe to assume that in the Book of Mormon, Lehi-Nephi and Shilom were close to each other, because the fortified their walls at the same time. (Mosiah 9:8 ) It also mentions people looking for the land of Lehi-Nephi for 40 days and stumbling across a hill just north of Shilom.

Lehigh County, PA and Shiloh, NJ appear to be within reasonable distance from each other. (Click on Map to Enlarge) Lehigh County is also close to the Atlantic Ocean, a possible landing area of Lehi.

The Jaredite Nation

Ether 10:20-21
“…the place where the sea divides the land…they did preserve the land southward for a wilderness, to get game. And the whole face of the land northward was covered with inhabitants.”

So all the Jaredite cities are in the land Northward, above the East and Western Seas that divide the Northern Land and Southern Land that have the narrow neck of land between them.

Ramah, Moron and Ogath are Jaredite cities in the Book of Mormon, and Jaredite cities are all in the "land northward".

Rama, Morin and St. Agathe are cities found in Canada, or the "land northward" from the perspective of a New Yorker in the 1800's.
(click map to enlarge)

An Astonishing Coincidence?

A few years ago, John E. Clark put together an evaluation for the Limited Great Lakes setting. However, he had no mention whatsoever of the similar names, geography, and matching distances. All he says in his nearly 60 page report is that there is no way the Book of Mormon took place near the Great Lakes.


This quote says it all regarding his conclusion as to the Great Lakes as a setting for the Book of Mormon: "None of the geographical correlations is convincing"

It appears to me that by reading this evaluation that John Clark is trying his hardest to try to talk people out of investigating the Great Lakes region. Probably because as they do so, they will discover what I did. Similar names and geographic regions that match exactly with the Book of Mormon.

When I showed the similarity between Mormon cities and actual cities to a good friend of mine, he said that he doesn't believe Joseph Smith copied maps because it would have been TOO OBVIOUS. My friend argued that Joseph Smith would never do something that obvious because how could he think he could get away with it. But that makes you wonder why LDS scholars haven't been able to find a single location for any Book of Mormon city. They have been actively looking for over 50 years. They haven't found a single location, city or artifact that supports the Book of Mormon.

It is reasonable to assume that Joseph Smith used the Great Lakes region as the main source to the geography in the Book of Mormon. There are few contradictions within the Book of Mormon itself as to the geography. It isn't until you try to place it in the real world that you start to have problems.

For example, in the Book of Mormon, the Hill Cumorah is located in Ramah, which should be in the "Land Northward". However, the hill Cumorah in Palmyra, NY as shown in the photo to the left, is south of the Great lakes. The limited Great Lakes theory would still require 2 Cumorahs, contradicting What Joseph Smith said. Perhaps Joseph used the Great Lakes region to create the Book of Mormon, but had the idea of the Hemispheric model, or the traditional model in mind. The paradox facing Joseph Smith's story is that the location of the Hill Cumorah in upstate NY doesn't match any limited geography theory.

Why haven't LDS scholars found a single city or artifact to support the claims of the hisoricity of the Book of Mormon? I will talk about Archaeology and the Book of Mormon in my next blog.

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Book of Mormon Geography

One of the most difficult and challenging things facing LDS scholars is when it comes to the Geography of the Book of Mormon. Nobody can put the Book of Mormon anywhere in the real world. When they attempt to do so, nobody can agree on it, and they have to skew things written in the Book of Mormon, contradict what Prophets have said, and the LDS scholars usually contradict each other.

The Book of Mormon is a record of people that left Jerusalem around 600 B.C. and sailed by ship to the American Continent. They started out as one light-skinned group, but then they split into 2 groups, known as the Lamanites and the Nephites. For the most part, the Nephites were rightous but the Lamanites were wicked, and cursed with dark skin for their wickedness. These 2 groups were always fighting with each other and eventually the Lamanites killed all the Nephites around 400 A.D. There were other groups as well. The Jaradites were a group that also left the Middle East around the time of the tower of Babel by ship to the Americas.

The Book of Mormon is very detailed with it's descriptions regarding cities and geographic regions. For example, in Alma 22:32 of the Book of Mormon, it says:

"And now, it was only the distance of a day and a half’s journey for a Nephite...from the east to the west sea...there being a small neck of land between the land northward and the land southward"

Traditional Geography Theory

The Book of Mormon gives many detailed descriptions of the Book of Mormon lands. In this particular passage, it says there is an east sea, a west sea, a land northward, a land southward and a small neck of land that divided the land northward with the land southward that was the distance of a day and a half's journey.

Most LDS scholars have assumed that the Book of Mormon lands cover Central America, since the Descriptions in the Book of Mormon seem to match the Geography.

It is important to note, however that there is no official church location for the Book of Mormon lands. The traditional geography theory was the assumption that the Book of Mormon lands covered all of North and South America. This is called the traditional geography theory because this is the theory that Joseph Smith himself and his followers believed in. That is, that the "land northward" was North America, the "land southward" was south America, the sea East was the Atlantic Ocean, the "Sea West" was the pacific ocean and the present-day Panama is the “narrow neck” of land.


Limited geography Theories

Most LDS scholars today disagree with the traditional geography view. John L. Sorenson mentions in his book An Ancient American Setting For The Book Of Mormon that when you calculate the travel time between extreme ends of the Book of Mormon Cities, even if by horseback, you get a maximum geography of a few hundred miles. This has lead to many non-traditional theories of the geography of the Book of Mormon lands. These are known as "limited geography theories". Limited geography theories contradict Joseph Smith and early Mormon followers. However, in present day, most LDS scholars and even some in the First Presidency agree that Joseph Smith and other Prophets were incorrect in their assumption that the Book of Mormon covered the entire North and South American Continent.

Of the limited geography theories, there are many different theories by LDS scholars as to the actual geographical location of the Book of Mormon lands.



Mesoamerica Limited Geography Theory

Among dozens of theories, the Limited Mesoamerica theory is the most popular. The geography seems to fit for the most part, except the narrow neck of land that is a day and a half's journey is kinda a stretch, since the narrowest section of land is about 130-140 miles. It is possible, however. Also, one would have to assume that North in the Book of Mormon is really West. So, once again, one would have to skew the meaning of the Book of Mormon to fit this idea.

There are many challenges to this theory. The main one is that the civilizations that existed in these areas don't resemble Book of Mormon lands at all. The plant life, animals, weapons, metallurgy, scripts, languages and overall culture in Mesoamerica do not reflect the descriptions in the Book of Mormon at all. They have them all wrong. Not even close. So although the geography could match, the anthropology doesn't resemble Nephites or the Lamanites in the least bit.

LDS linguists admit that their languages closely resemble North Eastern Asian origins. LDS Archaeologists admit that the archaeology in that region reflects Mongolian Ancestry. DNA testing has now proved what other scientists and LDS scholars already knew. Native Americans from that region are from North Eastern Asia. The other problem is that there are no specific cities that match both the descriptions, locations and time period as the Book of Mormon. For example, the time line might fit certain groups. However, the locations of these groups doesn't fit the Limited Geography Theory. Not only that, but most Temples were constructed hundreds or thousands of years before the Book of Mormon times.

Another example of difficulties placing geographical locations on the map is the famous temple at Chiapa de Corzo. It is one of the favorite temples that LDS scholars like to mention, because the temple there was built around 400-200 B.C. and was destroyed around the birth of Christ. However, just because they found a temple that happens to fit the time period doesn't mean it was a Nephite or Lamanite temple. Upon further and deeper investigation, the writing script at that area was a post-Olmec script, or a script based on Olmecs. It also couldn't be a Nephite City because although the temple fits the time period, the rest of the city was first occupied in 1,400 B.C. and the first mounds were built around 700 B.C. Those are little facts that LDS authors will not tell you. However, it is possible that the Nephites took over an existing Jaredite city, but there is no evidence to support it.

For more information on the Limited Geography Theory: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limited_Geography_Model_(Book_of_Mormon)

Great Lakes Limited Geography Theory

Of all the theories out there, another theory that has been closely examined is the Limited Great Lakes Theory. This particular theory caught my intrigue because the more I looked into it, the more it made sense.

The only official location for a Book of Mormon location by the church is a hill called "Hill Cumorah" located in upstate, New York. The Mesoamerica limited geography model required that the Hill Cumorah in upstate New York is a different Hill Cumorah than the one mentioned in the Book of Mormon. That would require 2 Hill Cumorahs and once again, LDS scholars are contradicting the prophet Joseph Smith.

Joseph Smith was very clear that the angel Moroni gave him the golden plates at the Hill Cumorah where both major battles took place. The Hill Cumorah in upstate, New York was located about a mile away from where Joseph Smith was living at the time. According to Joseph Smith, there was always only one Hill Cumorah. Now, LDS scholars are saying that Joseph Smith was mistaken on his assumption that the Hill Cumorah in upstate New york was the same Hill Cumorah that is mentioned in the Book of Mormon.

So, it would make sense that if there was only one Hill Cumorah, as Joseph Smith said, that all the other cities would also be around upstate New York. Remember that the distance between the extreme opposite ends of the Book of Mormon Cities was only a few hundred miles. This led me to explore the limited Great Lakes geography theory. What I discovered in my investigation shocked me to my foundations. The more I looked into it, the more shocking and disturbing it was what I was looking at. I screamed out loud to my computer screen "I can NOT freaking believe what I am looking at!!!!" My experience investigating the Limited Great Lakes theory changed my entire outlook on the church, the veracity of the Book of Mormon, and every other claim made by the church.

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Who is Zelph?

Who is Zelph and why do I use it as my pseudonym for this blog?

In 1834, the first Mormon prophet Joseph Smith and his followers came upon some bones at the top of a mound in Southern Illinois. The Mormon Prophet Joseph Smith identified the bones as a person named Zelph, a white Native American Indian that was a great warrier.

A character named Zelph in Southern Illinois draws questions about the geography of the Book of Mormon. I have always thought that the common assumption was that the Book of Mormon took place around Mexico, Guatamala and Central America in General.

A retired BYU professor Kenneth W. Godfrey (Ph.D.) understood the importance of examining Zelph because of the questions that arise regarding the geography of the Book of Mormon.


Even he admits that early church leaders were unsure of the geography of the Book of Mormon.

The current assumption among LDS scholars today is that the Book of Mormon had a very limited Geography around Mesoamerica. The only official geographical location tied to the Book of Mormon is the Hill Cumorah in upstate New York. LDS Scholars can't even agree if it is the same Hill Cumorah that the great battles described in the Book of Mormon occurred. The common assumption is that there is a Hill Comorah in upstate New York and another Hill Cumorah somewhere in Mesoamerica. One thing is clear, when it comes to the Geography of the Book of Mormon, nobody can agree upon it, nobody can seem to place it anywhere in the real world. Many LDS scholars have tried to put physical locations for the cities and geographic regions, but every time they attempt to do that, they either have to skew descriptions in the Book of Mormon, contradict what the official church leadership says, or contradict each other.

For example, the modern assumption among LDS scholars that the Book of Mormon lands were limited to a few hundred miles in mesoamerica contradicts what Joseph Smith said about Zelph. When Zelph was found in 1834, Joseph believed that the portion of America over which they had just traveled was "the plains of the Nephite," and that their bones were "proof" of the Book of Mormon's authenticity. Here is a direct contradiction of the geography of the Book of Mormon between a Mormon Prophet and Mormon Scholars.

Perhaps Joseph Smith was mistaken about Zelph. After all, he has also stated that there are 1,000 year old Quakers living on the moon. It is possible that he was so excited about the discovery of bones that he himself got caught up in the excitement and made statements among men that were simply Man's speculation and was not speaking through revelation.

Zelph represents a paradox in Mormon Doctrine: To prove the veracity of the Book of Mormon, one must contradict the first Mormon prophet, Joseph Smith.

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About me

I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, AKA the Mormons. I was born in the church, meaning that my parents were both members of the church when I was born. I got baptized and became a member when I turned 8 years old. I went on a mission to a foreign country, where I learned a foreign language. I got married to a Mormon in a Mormon temple, something that all Mormons are taught to aspire to.

There was no doubt in my mind that I was a member of the only true church of Jesus Christ on the earth. I was always taught that we are the only church that receives revelation from God through Prophets.

A few years ago, I started reading some things about the church that I have never been taught, or that I have never heard before. This information intrigued me to investigate further.
This Blog is my journey of looking at disturbing information, investigating facts and putting clues together regarding the foundation of the Mormon Church, the veracity of the Book of Mormon and other claims made by the church.



I am still an active member and I am hopeful that all the disturbing information might be proven wrong one day.

The most disheartening thing is that I am unable to ask anyone in the church about my questions. It is amazing how people in high positions within the church know very little regarding church history. If anyone questions the church, or any of their leaders, they are considered apostates and heretics. We are told to stop reading things that might question our faith, read the Book of Mormon, ignore what we know intellectually and listen to our heart.
As a member, this advice is frustrating and disheartening. This blog might be considered heresy, so I will remain anonymous. Right now, I am a very skeptical member, meaning that I am very skeptical at the claims made by the church, its leaders, the Book of Mormon, the Book of Abraham and other aspects of Mormonism in general.

This blog is an effort to document my journey and investigation in my quest for the truth. If you are Mormon as I am, I warn you that things you read in this blog might question your faith, just as they have questioned mine when I started reading them. I will always reference both sides of the argument because there are always 2 sides to every story.

Thank you for taking the time to read my blog and I hope that you will find it beneficial. My ultimate hope is that one day all my questions will be answered. Any comments are welcome.
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